Why Street Preachers Make Me Sick

streetpreacherI must admit that I don’t fully understand the calling of a street preacher. I’m referring to those people who stand on the corner and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. I understand that it is a form of evangelism. They are trying to draw souls towards Christ. Nonetheless, there are a large number of street preachers that just flat out make me sick.

There are some people who have a great heart and they go out into the streets and convey God’s message with love and compassion. These are not the people that I am talking about. I have a great deal of respect for all of the people who go out and minister in this way.

I am referring to the people who go to college campuses and stand on street corners around the world to preach hate. They say that they are Christians. They tell people that God wants them to change their lives. They tell gays, lesbians, fornicators, alcoholics and drug addicts that God hates them and that is just not true. They even use derogatory terms when referring to these people and Jesus would NEVER do that. The truth is, God may not be happy with a person’s actions, but his love for EVERYONE is never ending.

What makes me sad is that for many people, street preachers represent Christians and Christianity. People already have misconceived notions about Christians and now some street preachers help feed into that stereotype. In an effort to win souls, they end up turning people away.

I have even witnessed good hearted Christians approach some street preachers and try to explain to them that there is a better way to reach people. Unfortunately, their good intentioned efforts fall on deaf ears.

If you notice, the majority of the crowds that surround these types of street preachers consist of two types of people. First, there are the people who are against Christianity. The fact that a particular street preacher is using the “God hates” method of evangelism only fuels their dislike for God and Christianity. The second group consists of other misinformed believers. They are not affiliated with the street preacher, but they completely agree with how the message is being delivered. When people try to refute what the street preacher is saying, these believers will come to his/her defense.

We should all pray for street preachers. I believe that in their heart, they truly love the Lord. I believe that they truly want to see others saved. Unfortunately, I don’t think they genuinely understand the heart of God. If they did, they would alter their methods of evangelism. If they knew the true heart of God, they would know what to say and how to say it. I don’t know about you, but I would not be in a hurry to follow a God that hates me.

God’s love is powerful! It has the ability to transform any person or situation. As believers we should focus our energy on telling the world about the love of God.

What is your opinion about street preachers?

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  • Henry Westin

    James “the preacher” Lyman beats his 6 children with a rod.  His wife Lori is totally subjugated and not permitted out without James watching her.  The Lymans are constantly on the road preaching all over USA.  Question:  Where does James Lyman get enough money to support a family of 8 (mortgage/rent, utilities, food, and importantly medical, dental vision needs?)  His wife is diabetic and like James, overweight.  All 4 daughters are too fat.  James has done a number on his pathetic wife and daughters but they are too cowed to escape him.  henry_westin@hotmail.com

  • SpeakupGod

    I hear people speaking about God, what God wants. I want to hear from God. If he can’t speak, or be seen by everyone, you must think you are that special, and you are not. If this makes God angry, do not post and tell me. I want him to say, because that’s how you claim to know. I know God is sending me to Hell because an old preacher , looked into my eye with a threatening glare, and told me. He wanted me to fear him.  I knew then – 
     -GOD IS YOUR PREACHER – YOUR PREACHER IS GOD

  • Maw2389jil

    @ James
    The Lord Jesus Christ rebuke you!

  • Veggiefan

    James, you don’t truly understand how to preach.  I work with kids, and they like the way I preach.  However, you just yell at people, saying that God hates them.  Is this how you treat your children?  Oh, and remember your Veggie Tales videos on YouTube?  Well, I’m holy, and I watch Veggie Tales!  Veggie Tales was created to teach kids about God, using stories that are fun.  And in some of the DVDs they have the actuall Bible story. 

  • Revivalneeded

     Poor Henry Westin (not his real name) loves to throw around false accusations because he hates holiness and the true gospel.

  • Revivalneeded

     I have already dealt with the wicked Henry Westin, who hates God and holiness and truth and therefore resorts to his childish attacks.  Does Henry have a hatred towards me because he has not raised his children correctly?  Or because my family is happy and my wonderful children love their parents and follow the Lord willingly?  Because my children will never touch alcohol and will be pure when they get married?  Did old Henry have a daughter who had a baby out of wedlock and he is therefore jealous?  What does Henry (not his real name )Westin say about the Amish?  Yawn, Henry.  You are not the first to throw out childish attacks, neither will you be the last.  Repent and believe the gospel, let the Lord Jesus Christ change your heart and take out this bitterness and hatred that you have.

  • Henry Westin

    No, little jimmy.  I hate lying creeps who hurt women and children, who LIE about harassing people, who’d obliterate civil rights for those they itch to control and subjugate, and who won’t work for a living.  Must be fun taking handouts under the table.  Sure beats working a real job, where you might have a boss with twice your IQ; where you’d have to don a suit and tie, take orders, control your nagging mouth.  You’re too immature to tolerate those restrictions.

  • Henry Wesetin

    Lyman taunts women like the Klan taunted us Blacks during the lynching days.  Women are jim’s plantation servants and he relishes in his First Amendment to hurl “harsh” slurs at females in particular.  Funny, the clown calls his preaching “harsh”.  Why that adjective?  A bowel movement is not “harsh”.

  • Henry Westin

    In one report, Lyman told a young girl she probably wanted to lick his anus (Tampa).  Lyman is in Seventh Heaven with this : acting up on the streets, screaming, shocking people. He lives for travel, fun, games. Perpetual vacation, followed by BIG MEALS and ICE CREAM.  Yep, the plump Holy clown even mused about eating his cat’s ear stuffed with cheese and nuts (out of the abundance of the heart…..).  Made a scene in a restaurant, haranguing a stranger about an unholy tee shirt.

    Frankly I never understood how shouting “Pig” at O’Donnell or screaming to a mild-mannered critic (“you’re so ugly no man wants you”), has anything to do with preaching the Gospel.  The behavior is what you’d expect from junior high school boys.  Guess Lyman is vicariously RAPING under the cloak of religion.  But then, he’s mature, normal and holy unemployed.

  • Henry Westin

    Lots of street preachers have arrest records for disturbing the peace, domestic violence, etc. Few have a responsible job.

  • Revivalneeded

     What a pig mouth, lost man.  I do not speak vulgarity and by the grace of God never have since my conversiion to Christ, which you have never experienced.  Poor lost man, frustrated and bored and a racist (you hate white people do you not).

  • Revivalneeded

     lost man, I have many good conversations with people, which critics like you seem to ignore, and fool, I have many black friends and I am not racist as you are.  Yawn…

  • Revivalneeded

     Call me sir, lost man, not Jimmy.  I do not lie, does that make you envious because I have Christ living in me?  I too am against anyone hurting women and children, your comments are pure foolishness.Done with you lost man.  Comment all you like, I will not be reading them.  But you on the other hand are very easy to track with that IP address you have, so my attorney can deal with you.  My hope is that you will repent and believe the gospel.  Again, your jealousy is obvious.  How many times have you been divorced?  Family troubles?  Envious because my wife loves me and we have a great marriage and wonderful children?  Poor guy, I really do feel sorry for you.  Done, lost man.  If the harassment continues I will gladly contact law enforcement for slander and harassment and if you have the intelligence to do the research you will find that yours would not be the first case concerning such. 

  • Henry Westin

    jimmy, I don’t believe your family is holy and happy. and no, my daughters never had kids before marriage.  Typical racist bigot, you think all Black women are Ho’s.

    I have sons and daughters, all college-educated, all professional. Two girls with their Ph.D., more than little jimmy could ever attain.

    They are raising my grandbabies just right.  And my wife is not a Ho as you think, just a sweet nice lady, smart educated, my better half.  And no she won’t come scrub your trailer and wash your shorts.  But my Mother had to do those things, working for whites, scrubbing, laundry to make ends meet. And the Fundy Whites sat on butts complaining how lazy we Blacks were.

    And last not least, no I don’t deal drugs. and yes, I’ve been mistaken for Sammy D.

  • Henry Westin

    Nobody is “harassing” you little jimmy. Just free speech – what you demand for you but would hastily deny to others.  Cry on your “lawyer’s” shoulder whiner. Let readers see what a “christian” like you really amounts to.

    You brutalize women and girls more than you can imagine by your slurs, shouting PIG, allusions to torture, and boasting about rescinding their civil rights.  A scumbag who’d forbid education based on gender is identical to the Masters who whipped slaves and forbade them from learning to read and write.  Same mentality.

    What you scared of little jim?  That you don’t have the brains of a woman Ph.D. scientist? 

  • Henry Westin

    jimmy lyman LIES again:

    The above incident is described here:

    “This is going to sound nuts, but I’m almost positive this was the same preacher that accosted me and my 16 year old daughter in Ybor City (Tampa, FL) several months ago. He accused us of being ‘dykes’ because I had my arm around her as we were walking. My daughter stuck her tongue out at him and he claimed she did it because “she wanted to lick his anus.”

    Copied from this url :

    http://sjmishra.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/james-the-preacher/

  • Fernando Leon

     I agree with you, man. Because of my experiences as a street preacher in the past before coming out of the closet as a gay man, my former church even turned me off to Keith Green.

  • Fundies are white trash.

    Keep your fundie shit to yourself, you idiot fundie

  • Fundies are garbage

    Stop spewing your hate mongering religion with your half assed bible interpretations. 

  • Fundamentalism refuted

    Oh get over yourself.  You go off cherrypicking bible verses to justify this hate mongering preaching.  I researched the scripture from Luke 6, and it is clearly about the Pharisees, in its proper context.  And this is how street preachers act.  Pushy idiots out to use religion to put others down.  Jesse Morell is part of a sick cult known as Pinpoint Evangelism.  PS.  Going out making a scene does not mean you love anyone, its just another stupid show to show off how holy you are, “Look everyone, Im antagonizing sinners, pissing them off, and putting myself in stupid situations to get persecution points”

  • http://hipfellows.wordpress.com/ jtm

    Terrible misrepresentations of Christ’s love for sinners. 

  • dave

    This is real street evangelism, demonstrating the Power of God, Going to the park and feeding people, sharing the love of God, praying for people to be healed. Kingdom of God stuff, On earth as it is in heaven.

  • fundamentalism refuted

    I’ve heard about it.  They get all their income off of people dumb enough to assault them.  In fact Jesse’s leader Kerrigan Skelly started boasting about how they won a case.  But if they lose a case, its always persecution to them.  But how can these guys even have jobs?  They seem to spend a lot of time traveling. 

  • Mtripp2

    I am a street preacher and have been now 41 yrs. I understand what you say . as a open air preacher we must learn what to say , when to say and how to say it . The Lord Jesus Loves us . But because He loves us does not we all can go to Heaven We must be born again. Being a Street Preacher is an Honor and a Privilege. I have made mistakes in yrs. gone by and have learned from those mistakes . and God still allowes me to open air preach. I know that we will be judged by what we say to others. God commands us to show Mercy And Grace As He Gives us Mercy and Grace.

  • Tim Crook

    I think that this is a picture of the bad street preachers, not the good. Consider men like whitefield, wilberforce, wesley were all street preachers. Not only that But Street Preaching is Biblical by nature. CARM has put together an article about who street preachers were in the bible… that really changed my perspective. http://carm.org/street-preaching

  • http://twitter.com/metroclus Cash Willis

    The person that wrote thsi article should question their salvation. Nobody that God saves can be turned away John 10:28 and 1 Cor 1:18.

    Secondly, God calls everyone to street preach Matthew 10:27.

    The writer posted this picture with a guy wearing Psalms 7:11. That scripture is the word of God. It needs to be said. What is the problem? You cant ignore things that people dont want to hear. You have to give them the FULL COUNSEL OF GOD. Acts 20:26-27

    The whole Bible points to street preaching, Christ himself did it.

    The writer of this article ended by saying ” As believers we should focus our energy on telling the world about the love of God.” That is wrong.

    God says share the gospel, that includes his hate for sin, his holiness, his justice, his love, grace and mercy all shown in the death and resurrection of Christ.

    God calls us to preach the message of Repent and believe the gospel NOT what this false article says. Mark 1:15

  • StarsAbove100 .

    I say we should let the street preachers keep on preaching. Street preachers like Ruben Israel, Kerrigan Skelly, John McGlone, Jesse Morrell, Kevin Farrer, Michah, and Shawn the Baptist do a valuable service by turning people away from Christianity by making Christianity look like a very evil, sick, grotesque, disgusting, vile, and very goofy religion. Plus, these street preachers are entertaining in the way that circus clowns and carnival freaks and geeks are entertaining. Bravo to these street preachers for doing such a fabulous job of turning people AWAY from Christianity!!!

  • Living Faith

    On a string I started on Facebook in late Nov 2013, which I captioned “I can’t stomach this”, that first post included a video of Cindy Smock “preaching”. In that string, Jesse Morrell and Jed Smock both contended that they hate sinners. Jesse said that if a person doesn’t HATE SINNERS, then he’s not godly. I was shocked to learn how Jesse Morrell CONDONES and highly honors the crucifix-carrying {forbidden by scripture}, filthy story telling, false accuser Jed Smock and his out of control, hateful wife Cindy, who commonly calls women she has never met and knows nothing about “whores” and other derogatory names as she does her “opening ACT” to get attention and gather a crowd. Jed explained this strategy as he justified her outrageous uncomliness. Cindy is the antithesis of the meek and quiet godly woman described in the New Testament. Jed exposed himself beyond reproof as he derided anyone who dared to judge their “ministry” based on youtube videos, or who had not themselves street preached. Jed and Jesse and their supporting group showed themselves exceedingly proud and above all correction, even by other street preachers, some of whom had learned to stop using the ungodly tactics of the Smocks and who had confessed and repented. But not Jed or Jesse! Jed called the godly men who attempted to correct him “pretenders” as he exalted his 40 years of doing things his own way, leaning on the “wisdom” of speech 101: “get their attention before delivering your message”.

  • Living Faith

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    Luk_11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
    Joh_5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
    Rom_5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
    Rom_8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Tit_3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    1Jn_2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
    1Jn_3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
    1Jn_3:17 But whoso hath this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
    1Jn_4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

  • Living Faith

    You Pharisee/hypocrites twist scripture trying to justify your brazen disobedience to the word of God. Paul asked the Corinthian church:
    1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
    1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth.
    But you hypocrites think it’s your job to judge those OUTSIDE the church, as if YOU are God! Certainly naming sin is not ungodly, but you hypocrites love to bring railing accusations which not even Michael the archangel would dare to sling at Satan himself – against lost souls who Jesus loved enough to die for. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU HYPOCRITES who misrepresent the Father and the Son, and grieve the Holy Spirit! SHAME! You cause the way of truth to be evil spoken of, and then boast about your evils. You GLORY in your shame. Your judgment lingers not and your damnation slumbers not. Like “general” Jed Smock, you wallow in hatred and crimes against people, then have the gall to say you haven’t sinned in years! God sees all your sins, you blind guides, who proudly stomp around in your deep ditches, drawing others down with you.

  • AGM

    Yea he only won ONE case in which he won $1. Surprised? That is just a stereotype that’s passed around to further discredit them.

  • http://waronbullying.tripod.com Patricia Backora

    Jesus went around HEALING people and FEEDING THE HUNGRY and doing good stuff to bless others. What you do speaks louder about your faith than yelling religion at strangers in the street. I know one group that rejects that God still does miracles and healings, and is always talking about God’s wrath, never his love. They think God is powerless until you die and see his miraculous side in heaven According to these sad, gloomy Christians AVOIDING HELL is the ONLY reason for trusting Christ.

  • Michael

    Yes he did…to people like you.

  • Lelia

    I think that street preachers should preach the Gospel in a loving way. Yes, they should warn people about Hell, but do so in a loving way, for the Bible says to speak with love. So instead of screaming, “GOD HATES YOU! YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!”
    Say, “God loves you and doesn’t want anyone to perish. Please accept Jesus Christ and be saved, for He is the only way to Heaven.”

  • Jim Deferio

    From my years of preaching and ministering on the streets and at college campuses I have learned that almost all of the insult-preachers and self-righteous preachers belong to the KJV Onlyism cult. Most are uneducated and are blindly following adulteress Gail Riplinger and adulterer Peter Ruckman and their teachings about the KJV and modern Bible translations (what is weird is that most Onlyists don’t even know they are following the teachings of these two – like I said, they are BLIND).

    I have rebuked numerous open air preachers for their divorces & remarriages, unsaved kids, crass language, etc. but what usually happens is that they viciously turn on me.

    Beware of Ruben Israel, James Lyman, Kevin Deegan, Jesse Morrell (Morrell holds to a number of heresies), Lonnie Pursifull, and the other men they “preach” with.

    I love God, people and truth enough to get out there and tell people the truth and to pray for them and to speak with them at length. I used to be a very wicked atheist and people showed me kindness and shared TRUTH with me. If someone like Lyman had ever called me names when I was an atheist I would have beaten the daylights out of them and their family. I was an atheist, I didn’t care and nor did I pretend that there were objective moral values and objective moral duties.

    I have challenged James Lyman to debate me face to face in front of his “church” but he refuses to accept my challenge.

  • DesertFlower

    I would be very careful about labelling all ‘street preachers.’ John the Baptist was a ‘street preacher’ of sorts. He said things that angered individuals. Remember he was beheaded because he chastised Herod for marrying incestrously. That being said, one just has to keep in mind that not all who say ‘lord, lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven. If it’s clear that the street preacher is not truly a preacher at all but a purveyor of hate such as the imfamous Westboro Baptist Church, then one shouldn’t take them seriously. They’re just plain wacko. but there is nothing wrong with having a street ministry, and there are many who are legitimately and quietly doing just that.

  • Josh Yacko

    jesus called the people fools and cows when he preached, if you want to talk about namecalling. what part of repent or parish do you not understand.

  • Logan Holladay

    Jesus was a street preacher!!!!!!!!
    Turning tables, calling out the Samaritan lady, telling the adulterous to “go, and sin no more.”
    He also said preach the word in and out of season.

    So maybe you should dust off that bible. That is if you own one, and start reading it. And next time you see a man up on a box speaking about Christ. Maybe you should listen to what he or she is saying, then if they’re hurting Christ you can rubuke or correct them.
    But most of them are servants of Christ. And are doing exactly what we’re supposed to be doing.
    “The great commission”

  • Logan Holladay

    Hey fundamentalst.
    Learn the fundamentals. Don’t be jerk. We all know there are some nuts out there and if I seen one I would be compelled to join the discussion and let the people listening know the man is in error. But most street preachers tell you right out of the gate that their a filthy sinner too.
    So don’t act like the whole lot of them are bad or should stop. Open your eyes. This world could use some good news. That were wretched, but God will take us just how we are. And he’ll give us new desires

  • fundamentalism refuted

    Still the pinpointers are nuts

  • jim scaggs

    Let us always remember that while God is love he is also coming to judge the world with righteousness, 1Cor ch 6, Colossians ch 2 , the book of James, One must preach repentance also and never cease to warn the lost of the reality of hell,somewhere along the line the idea of coming to Jesus without repentance has become very popular, without true heartfelt repentance there is no salvation.

  • Carolyn Hyland

    The last video I saw on u tube is of my neighbor who used his son 7 and 9 years of age sons to harass a bunch of women at the river calling them whores because they were in swimsuits, he said look boys a bunch of whores. He didn’t know these women why on earth would any parent teach their children hatred. Yes he is a member of hell shaker preachers here in Oregon. It’s to bad I use to think he was a good person but now I won’t give him the time of day.

  • jeff hildebrand

    The problem with most street preaching is that rhe people are doing it with an us vs. Them attitude and are trying to illicit anger. Paul says to be gentle and longsuffering when dealing with sinners. Jesus was patien and gentle.
    The old testement preachers were usually preaching to the apostate religous people…and wheb Jesus did get angry it was the same…the so called church.
    Paul says…i dont judge those outside the church. But these evil pretenders do just that. They are self rightous. .usually in 2nd marriages themselves. They have no tact and have no real for sinners. On top of that, they boast by publishing thier exploits on youtube….look at me im so religious. ..look at me hand it to that nasty sinner.
    They test theaw enforcement working these events. They push peoplw to anger that is usually jusitifiable.
    Quit telling people to read the bible correctly until you do the same.

  • jeff hildebrand

    There is a whole section about believers taking believers to court and this in the negative. How much more should we not engage unbelievers in the courts.

  • jeff hildebrand

    I see you have not read when Jesus said if you call some one a fool you ste in danger of hellfire. Yet you people call people whores sissys fags and homos.
    You people have a form of religion but deny the gentleness and patience of Christ. You’re braggarts and enjoy being inflammatory. You are todays pharisees eess.

  • jeff hildebrand

    Warning doesnt depend on you screaching hate in megaphone from a person who is three feet away. You probably couldnt carry on a normal conversation with an unbeliever. ..that would require empathy and gentleness…you know…the things Paul talked about.

  • Prince John

    There is a group of those street preachers here in Florida, and they preach like either every single sin in the Bible is an umbrella with thousands of more sins each under it, or anything the Bible is silent about is a sin in and of itself. They call Christmas a sin in and of itself. They call mingling a sin in and of itself. They call dancing and partying a sin in and of itself even without booze, without cigarettes, and without drugs, and even if the music is not rap. They tell single guys like me especially who want marriage to ask God to send him a wife and then look to God as if He were even Santa Claus. Literally even sit at home and wait for her to come ring his doorbell and take him out on a date or walk down the aisle right away. I even told them it doesn’t work like that, and they said; “You faith is absolutely, horribly weak!”

  • Erik Schmitt

    I challenge you to a public debate, Jim Deferio. How about “Is homosexuality immoral” as a topic?

    I challenge you to cease blocking anyone who has better arguments than you and walk the talk.

  • 27273100

    ^^^THIS!! When the hating stops, people will listen to what street preachers and their God have to say.

  • Jim Deferio

    Erik Schmitt already lost a debate with me so now he trolls me trying to get back for the humiliation he felt. I even told him that I hope him and his wife does well but he called me names in response. THAT is being a sore loser.

    Schmitt is a homosexualist who has allowed feelings to govern him. As a result his feelings have corrupted his mind and now he is filled with hatred for everyone who is a Christian but strangely not for Muslims who throw gays off of roof tops! Hmmmm, I wonder why.

    I asked him to define “science” and he couldn’t. I asked him to give me the 17 presuppositions that under gird science and he didn’t have a clue what I was talking about. I referred him to famous evolutionists who put evolutionism into the category of religion and a historical narrative which is open to interpretation and he ignored the scholarship.

    Schmitt doesn’t have a clue what the Laws of Logic are and how rational thinking is dependent upon them. He is also ignorant of the fact that naturalism has no reasonable ground for those who hold to it to even think naturalism is true. It’s like saying “I always lie.”

    Schmitt doesn’t read comprehensively and in context so he thinks I should obey ordinances in the Bible that were clearly written to and only for the Jewish people in the tiny nation of Israel before Christ came. He also thinks it is OK for a strange man to follow a girl into the restroom, which I think is criminal and physical force should be used to prevent sexual abuse.

    Schmitt ignores the MANY testimonies of people who were set free from the mental disorder that is homosexualism and transgenderism because it doesn’t fit his worldview. Here’s the kicker, Scmitt doesn’t know what a worldview is and what a former Harvard Univ. President said about science and worldviews.

    Schmitt makes many assertions but has never given any evidence to back them up. He is merely a naysayer and an anti-theist who thinks it’s fun to troll Christians.

    This court paper in Vermont shows the real Erik Schmitt and how he treats women. This is shameful conduct! What Schmitt was doing may have been “legal” in Nevada but not in Vermont. Some guys think below the waistline instead of above…

    https://www.vermontjudiciary.org/20112015%20Tcdecisioncvl/2011-6-20-2.pdf

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